Nicolay is a classically trained musician and hip-hop producer from the Netherlands with a few critically acclaimed albums under his belt, including Dutch Masters Volume 1, Here, and his most famous album, Connected under the name Foreign Exchange with Phonte from Little Brother. Nicolay has worked with many well-respected names in the underground hip-hop scene, including J-live, Roy Ayers, Jaguar Wright, and the Strange Fruit Project. Kay is a producer and emcee with the group The Foundation in Houston. The Foundation is also listed in the Rawkus 50. Together, Nicolay and Kay created a seamless mixture of sounds from the 60’s to the present with Time:Line, a journey through the life of one person, from birth all the way to the after-life.

I sat down to call and chat with Nicolay in North Carolina and Kay in Houston to discuss their new album, gas prices, and the glories of the internet.
J: How are y’all doin?

N: I’m not too bad.

K: Yeah, we’re good. (both laugh)

J: First off, I just want to say Nicolay congratulations, as you just got married and now live in North Carolina.

N: Thank you. I appreciate that.

J: How’s it working out for you there?

N: Well, you know, we’ve had our first month-aversary if you want to call it that, and so far we haven’t killed each other. We’re both very pleased with how it’s turning out so far.

J: I would hope so. Now I got a few questions here: You’ve both praised the process of making Time:Line in separate locations, sending files back and forth from the Netherlands to Houston because of the freedom of creativity that was possible through this approach like getting to explore each idea without interference, then bringing it to each other. Would you say that based on your experiences this method will one day replace the more traditional ways of making an album?

N: Well, I think it already has. I think that it definitely over the last couple of years already has. Like for instance the other day I read about Seal and how he was working on his new album while he was in LA and the dude doing the music was in London and sent stuff back and forth, and that’s Seal, you know that’s a major artist, or at least used to be for a considerable amount of time and so I think honestly, it already has. I know of a lot of people that are constantly just strictly working out of their homes, and making their business communicative online so it definitely is where we are right now with the state of music.

J: This is true. Kay?

K: Yeah, I agree. I mean, really, a lot of it just has to do with economics. Gas [is] too much, I ain’t driving to dude’s house, man (laughing). The travel is crazy, so it’s nice to be able to just call somebody on the phone and shoot em’ the file. You don’t really have to book any studio time. If you’re the artist and you’re serious about your craft, invest in some good equipment and have your space in the corner of your house, and you’d be surprised with technology how much you can get done.



J: I have to agree – that’s actually how I do it, too. I recently read an article about Erykah Badu, that’s how she did her latest album, and she’s known as the “Analogue Girl”. But would you say there are any drawbacks with not having that connection that you find when you’re in each other’s presence?

N: I mean, you know, there can be. It depends really on whether or not it’s actually an option to you to even work with each other “in the flesh”. I think that for us and the way we started out, we basically had two choices: One is do nothing, and two is to make music, but to do it the way we could, and that was without any meetings basically. We all have computers and we may be able to buy a mic here and there and record ourselves, and that’s how we started out so we never really had that choice of working in a hundred thousand dollar studio like Electric Lady or something, and now we have to downscale because the music industry is different… We started out the exact opposite way. We started out with just a desktop, and so for us it just feels natural this way, if you know what I’m sayin.

J: Yeah, I definitely see that. Would you say how the music industry is changing, with everyone downloading everything online, should we go embrace this new way, or should it be a combination of old and new methods, and do you see any drawbacks to where we’re going with music?

N: That’s a very good question. Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of drawbacks obviously but at the same time, I feel like there’s really no turning back anymore and I think that this is what I could say from a historic perspective: You could always look back and point your finger like where it happened while some of the stuff is going down. It may be sometimes hard to really identify it, and people right now say that when the major labels started battling stuff like Napster is really when the battle was lost, and this was like almost ten years ago now. I think really there’s a lot of downsides to it, but there’s no turning back and so rather than just fight it, I think the right philosophy is to embrace it, to research it, and to see how you can use it for your own benefit, and how you can actually maximize your own potential using stuff like that.



K: From an artist standpoint, I think people still should like study the classics. I know me and Nic, as far as paying homage to the sound of when people had to go through all the hoops and everything, you can hear the effort in that. I mean, we put a lot of effort in what we do, but I just think that even though we do things in a new way, I can tell you that we both probably agree that we use some of the old processes. What do you think about that Nic? Is that about right?

N: Yeah I think that we may not necessarily have access to the same means that they had, but I think that we have a lot of the same approaches and I think our awareness of making music goes a lot deeper than you know, “here’s a dope-sounding track and here’s a dope-sounding lyric- that sounds like a dope song”. I think that we very much try to examine what it is that we really really really love about those old records, those classics or whatnot, and see if we can translate that, adding our own personal sauce to it, and create something new that people nowadays can enjoy. I think that there’s a lot of downsides, and there’s a lot to be said about negativity, but at the same time a lot of stuff is still possible. I mean, Al Green came in number 9 with a record that in any way that sounded like it could be from the 60’s and 70’s. So it’s definitely not too late, it’s just gonna have to be done with a lot more creativity and with a business mind, and then you can still do a lot stuff with really great sounding music.

J: I have to say that’s one of things about Time:Line is that it has that feel of different eras with a new twist on it. Underground hip-hop is known as being a small community with basically like-minded individuals embracing the content. The internet has made everything so accessible, where the tradition of physically going to the store and interacting with others, and then waiting in anticipation to listen to it has been replaced with the click of a button to get new music. Do you think the music might lose some of it’s meaning from that feeling you guys were talking about, with always focusing on why you’re there, studying the classics, and being really dedicated to the music?

K: Well I think the thing about it is, once people pay more attention to detail, the more that people will take notice of what you’re doing. Because I mean, me and Nic could’ve done just bangers, as far as from a classic, underground “I’ma leak these songs out” sense, but when you actually take the time to do more of a conceptual record, or just whatever you do, just try to make it as unique as possible. I think you still can stand out. I think that’s even more important now because it’s economics. It’s like what can you do to make your stuff so unique that people will still gravitate to it? So that’s a challenge I think most artists really are dealing with now, because you can’t just do the stuff you did in the past and stand out.



J: Right. You were talking about a business mind, and I know Nicolay, that this is your first album to be released on your own label, Nicolay Music, which I understand was created out of frustration with all that comes with dealing with record labels. Will you use this as a platform to expose artists you discover to the masses, or will you keep it contained to music you’re personally involved with?

N: Yeah, that’s something I’m not really sure about yet. I mean, the main reason for me to do this was, like you said, I felt that – and I felt this for awhile now, but it’s something where as an artist, a label gives you a certain security, very much the same way a job gives you a certain security. But it’s a false security. It’s a security where you think like, I get my paycheck every month and I get my benefits and whatnot, but at the end of the day, you may not really be doing what you want to be doing in your life. And I think that with a label it’s very much the same situation. You see that a lot is not really going as it should, but you know that they can do a lot and they can do these things on a regular basis and whatnot, but a lot of artists have been used to I guess swallowing it, just for the sake of doing it. But now, artists are finding out left and right you can really kind of do it yourself if you’re clever enough. Honestly for us, the situation is in my previous dealings with labels- and financially I was always treated very fairly, I have to say this on the record- from a financial standpoint, but we would still lose 50% of all of our income to the label and so that gives you a question of like, if they get 50%, you also have to assume that they do 50% of the work, right,? But that’s usually where it goes wrong and you find out well, a lot of stuff is not really handled as it should, and that’s where you start to find out where ultimately me as an artist, I am the best at selling me. There’s nobody else that can do that better than I can. So, that’s where you start putting one and one together, and realize okay, if I can just find the right people to do artwork and press it up and deliver it to stores, then why can we not try it ourselves. Initially I wanted to release my own albums on it just to kind of see if it works for one, and at the end of the day it would be really really cool if in the future I get an opportunity to maybe expand on that and maybe start working with people that I really like and maybe I am musically not really involved, but initially it will definitely just be my records, and those are going to be very varied in the sense that there’s the record with Kay, but then I’ll do a new City Lights record, and that’ll be fully instrumental, so I think that there’s a lot of variety even though it’s still all myself.

J: Very cool –I’m certainly looking forward to whatever else you put out. Now that people have had some time to digest Time:Line, are you still getting comparisons to Foreign Exchange?

N: Yeah. All day, haha. Well, I mean, you know, I guess we get it less. You know what, to be very honest with you, and Kay and I have spoken about this, but I think at the end of the day, we got it a lot less than I was afraid of. I don’t know, what would you say, Kay?

K: Yeah, it was kind of like – I guess it was so conceptual to a degree and the Foreign Exchange, it was the overall broad concept of doing a record with somebody from a distance. So the album was slightly different. Of course, you’re gonna have folks that, and I understand it, because I’m a big Foreign Exchange fan, that’s like “yo, I just wanna hear Phonte with Nic” but for the most part, it’s like people really like it, so…

N: Yeah, I mean we did get it, and it comes up obviously because every artist knows that you personally get compared to your strongest work. That’s what I do as a fan, I know that if a Prince album drops, I know that I’m gonna be thinking “well it’s not Parade is it”, and you would never be able to get away from it. In fact I consider myself very, very blessed that there’s even stuff that I’ve done that people care so much about that they really feel passionate about it. But the Time:Line record I think was very unique in itself because of our chemistry and the way we did it was definitely similar, but there’s just something that we do together that is really really unique in that – we’ve known this for a minute, but we really felt that it would work to do an entire record. Rather than comparing the two, I think the best approach is to have the two stand together, and have different chapters of the big book. For Kay it’s a different chapter in the sense that you know, he’s done his stuff with The Foundation and his album The Talk Show, and he’ll move on to do the next project and it’s the same for me. It fits in our body of work, and I really really like that it’s got sort of received as that. It really, overall, got received very well and especially in the press I don’t think there were any unfair weighing of Time:Line in reference to Connected.

J: I think that after listening to the album it’s hard to compare, because it is a different beast and I would personally prefer new things for each new album, though I’ve liked it all.

N: yeah, I mean, for me the way I look at it is, for artists, the next step is it. What I really like recently, is that I feel like we’ve all really gotten a lot better at what we do, and that’s just really cool to experience. To really kind of make leaps in terms of progress, in terms of what you do musically, at least that’s how we feel, it remains to be seen what the world thinks. But we really feel lately like we’ve really reached new heights when it comes to the stuff that we do. So for our artists, we are always concerned with whatever we’re doing at that moment, and sometimes a record will be released, and you know how it goes, it will be released maybe three months after you’ve finished it, maybe six months, sometimes maybe even a year, and by that time you’re already looking at the next one. So for us, I also look at the albums in terms of my personal progression, to see okay, I’ve gotten better over the years and hopefully will continue to get better. I know from Kay’s perspective, and me lookin’ at Kay, and me being a fan of his work I can also say that the same goes for him.

J: Kay, anything you want to add to that?

K: I mean, he pretty much summed it up. It’s all about growth. I look forward to doing the next album with Nic and just looking at what we did, and being able to reflect on everything and just knowing where things can go. And even with the whole collective, it will hopefully get to the point to where we’re like a new native tongue crew where we can all just get together and consistently just be creative and put out good music, you know. That’s my hope. That’s my goal.

J: Kay, with your group The Foundation being part of the Rawkus 50 and you creating “Rappers I Know”, and now with this album, and your album Talk Show available, would you say the Houston Underground Hip-hop scene is starting to get on the map, and what do you think Houston has to offer the masses?

K: Well, there’s a lot of talent down here. I mean, that’s one thing I was happy that Nic allowed it, for the most part, a lot of the people that assisted with Time:Line live right down the street from me. So, it’s just a matter of having outlets and just getting everybody together, gettin’ people to be on the albums and us staying connected with each other and trying to help each other out. I feel like Houston, as large a city as it is, I always find it kind of crazy that people only expect one thing out of our city. There’s just so much talent here. I mean there’s almost five million people here and it’s a real diverse scene, but it’s like I guess in the past, labels only really look for more “reality rap” verses our reality, like a normal person’s reality, is not like a gangster, so we’re trying, but we’re going against the strain though. I feel like before I stop doing this, I want to be able to say that I had something to do with adding balance here, so that’s my goal.



J: Nicolay, do you think you have an advantage as a hip-hop producer being a classically trained musician?

N: Well, yes and no, I think at the end of the day yes, in the sense that I can fall back on tricks, if you will. I can really kind of fall back on techniques and stuff that I’ve learned and recently, I’ve just started to allow myself to go deeper and deeper into it, and to really no longer look at it as a process of taking a sample and adding some drums, and maybe adding a bass and some keys and that’s it. But really, to approach it in terms of wanting to do a composition that has a verse and a chorus and a bridge and an A part and a B part, and to not have to rely on a sample even, but to go from being a beat maker or producer to a composer or an arranger, and in that sense, I think that Time:Line was one of those cds where I got to do it a little bit more as compared to some of the older stuff and with some of the future records. Like the new Foreign Exchange record, it will be a lot more on that, and I hope to be able to – you know, if there’s one thing that my goal is- if Kay’s goal is to put a different side of Houston on the map, I think my goal is to put a different side of music on the map again where I would have to say where a situation where ultimately hip-hop develops into something different. A new hybrid, whatever you want to call it, it’s really hard to find a word for it, but you know something that is really creatively and musically something that you could put against some of the stuff that’s on the radio right now. I would really like if we could have a little bit of a contribution in that, just keeping that alive, I think that’d be a good goal.

J: Now I know that the next Foreign Exchange album, Leave It All Behind, is due out sometime this summer, but when are y’all going on tour for Time:Line?

N: Well, it’s been a crazy year, so we really didn’t have the opportunity to really do a full-blown tour, because I was gettin’ married-

K: Yeah, that’s bullshit by the way. You gotta put your marriage in front of us, man?

N: Well, you know.

K: I’m really disappointed in that. (Both laugh)

N: Good thing I can’t come to your house – (Both laugh) No, but – we’ve done a lot of fun things left and right, and it’s been cool. We had never really performed together outside of work so for us, it was also a way to get to know each other that way and really figure out what we need to do to bring something that’s not just like somebody pressin’ play and the other dude’s just rhyming over it and that’s it, and every song ends. We really wanted to make sure that we would do right by the album, so we’ve just been developing that and it looks like we’re having an opportunity to take it to Europe soon, and that would be really awesome and hopefully we’ll just continue to do it in the states, that’s my hope. To visit a lot of cities and introduce to album, because it’s been fun really. The shows make you hear the music a different way, I mean for me at least it did. You learn how to re-appreciate it in a way, because when you release it, usually you’re sick of it by that point.


J: What about playing instruments live onstage – would you consider doing something like that?

N: Yes well, if you want to talk about another goal, I’d like to do that, but that’s where budget becomes a major factor and really, it’s a situations where if we’re allowed the opportunity to do something like that in the near future, I would love to. Something where we could be able to put whatever kind of form of band together and I would love to perform any and all stuff in a setting like that, and I’d love to do that with Time:Line material, I’d love to do that with Foreign Exchange material. I think that the stuff that we have really lends itself with stuff like that, but that’s where it would need to make sense financially before you can really do that. We may be doing really well in what we’re doing, but at the same time, our niche is really really small, so we would have to make that happen, and I’m quite confident that eventually we will. I would love to. I think Kay would love to bring some people on the road and actually play.

K: Yeah, it’s about rehearsing, and yeah… It could be crazy, though. I know it’d be dope, but it’s a matter of just getting them all together, and the ultimate plan is to have a Foundation/Foreign Exchange Time:Line show, with everybody actually rehearsing and doing the music correctly. (Laughs)

N: One day, we should be able to pull that off. It would be like the new Up in Smoke, but the underground Up in Smoke. That would be dope, but that would be a big undertaking, and like I said, I think that it’s mainly a budget situation, and especially nowadays with gas prices and flight prices, it’s really hard to even tour right now with just yourself, because the economy is doing pretty poorly.

LINKS:

Nicolay Music - http://www.nicolaymusic.com -
http://www.myspace.com/nicolay

Kay - http://www.myspace.com/kayofthefoundation

The Foundation - http://www.myspace.com/thefoundationband

“Rappers I Know” - http://www.rappersiknow.com

Rawkus 50 - http://www.rawkus.com/rawkus50/

Foreign Exchange - http://www.myspace.com/theforeignexchange

Little Brother - http://profile.myspace.com/littlebrother